Greeting Freestyle Jamming Friends,
First of all, thank you for your input and sharing of thoughts and concerns about our continued thinking about incorporating a Dial System of electronic judging. Some of the questions posed recently were what the FPA Board was hoping to receive from my original email last week about our considerations of eventually using a Dial System after it was used during the 2018 Frisbeer tournament. Much of what’s been shared is similar to the thoughts we’ve been sharing with each other on the FPA Board as more of us experience and learn about this new system.
Given that, I want to clarify that we have not solidified a decision as of yet; and I apologize if my announcement came off as if any firm decision has been made about using the Dial System vs. Tablet System. (Probably should have used the word “desire” rather than “intent” in my original post). We have not made a firm decision at all; in fact, my email was in an effort to solicit input from our community – especially from those who have been judged using this system and from those who are curious about it. The excitement in my email announcement emerges from many of us during Frisbeer who felt that the Dial System dramatically improved the tournament experience for most everyone in terms of reducing judging Time and providing real-time results during (as well as after) the different performances. However, this is a new system and many of you have yet to experience it. My announcement was in an effort to inform the freestyle community about what seems like a successful process at Frisbeer, and sharing the possibility of incorporating such a system in the future.
Unfortunately, the email seemed to generate other concerns besides the Dial System, and I would like to address those as well. (Jakub addressed some of this more directly in a direct response to Tom on Facebook in Frisbee Freestyle Players in his post there). One issue is that there’s a perception that there’s a disconnect regarding whether the FPA Board is properly vetting larger issues to the overall community. We agree that we need a clear communication platform with which to better provide progressive ideas for everyone in our community. Therefore, the FPA will very soon set up a new forum page on the FPA website where these larger, forward-looking issues can be discussed more fluidly. As many of you know, the FB pages, although convenient for many, are not the only place where FPA issues can be discussed and announced. Jammers on the Net/Eurojammers on the Net traditionally have been the places where much of the freestyle communication streams have been since the early 1990s. However, now we have numerous outlets for posts, announcements, etc. (especially Freestyle Frisbee FB and FPA FB pages). This new forum on the FPA (freestyledisc.org) website will allow a central place where many of us can dialogue more productively and provide an archive of information from which the FPA can access for numerous progressive initiatives.
Back to the dial system. My announcement/message about the Dial System was intended to express our wish to thoughtfully move forward with figuring out how the dial system could possibly be an eventual replacement. We understand that if the dial system is going to be widely used, especially at high-level tournaments, that there are issues to be worked out. Already, there has been much input and, basically, much of what has been shared with the FPA is centered on making sure results from the Dial System are fair, viable, and that a Dial Judging system would be understood by players and judges…. that is a very big deal and the FPA Board is certainly wishing the same kind of consideration. We are gathering more feedback and information; and there are a number of consistent issues that need to be worked through. For larger tournaments, it would be prudent to determine a validity process for the Dial System against the Tablet System. The good news is that we have several upcoming events this year that will provide those opportunities.
For what it’s worth, I was a skeptic too until I saw it operate. Now that I have experienced this system, I believe that it is worth looking into more systematically.
No final decision has been made on implementing a new FPA judging system. In fact, the FPA Board and myself are intent on thoroughly exploring all of the questions, implement appropriate safeguards and educate the jamming and judging community. And we want to do that exploration in a focused, efficient way – not on “Frisbee time.” Consistent with the FPA Bylaws, should the Board wish to take the Dial System forward for major freestyle events, we would be proposing to the FPA membership changes to the Competition Manual accordingly.
Ryan can better clarify the software mechanics (Dial vs current Tablet) and ways to address the concerns that are out there. We have also asked him to try to get the software to folks so you can try the system using on-line routine videos.
For those of you who have not had a chance to, check out the 2018 Frisbeer videos that use the Dial System and show most routines with superimposed real-time data displayed to the viewers (thanks to Mystiq and Ryan). It can give an idea of the process, and how audience-friendly the competition is for even those who are not freestylers*. http://www.frisbeeguru.com/frisbeer-2018-finals-rountines/
*Note: TIME is how much time is left for a routine, CURRENT is the cumulative score by a team at that time, and SPLIT is how far the team’s score is below or above the leading team at that time.
I attached some of the feedback we have gotten, and some analysis from Frisbeer as separate documents. Not on Facebook (since I cannot post documents there that I am aware), but on Jammers on the net/Eurojammers list serve.
A FrisbeeGuru poll is here (which was provided immediately after Frisbeer). A similar poll can be conducted after each tournament that uses the Dial System in order to get more information as time goes on:
– Good – I was at Frisbeer 2018 (48%, 16 Votes)
– Good – I saw is on the Frisbeer 2018 Live Stream (24%, 8 Votes)
– Indifferent – I was at Frisbeer 2018 (9%, 3 Votes)
– Undecided – I saw is on the Frisbeer 2018 Live Stream (6%, 2 Votes)
– Good – I’ve not experienced it yet (6%, 2 Votes)
– Undecided – I was at Frisbeer 2018 (3%, 1 Votes)
– Indifferent – I’ve not experienced it yet (3%, 1 Votes)
– Undecided – I’ve not experienced it yet (0%, 0 Votes)
– Bad – I’ve not experienced it yet (0%, 0 Votes)
– Bad – I saw is on the Frisbeer 2018 Live Stream (0%, 0 Votes)
– Indifferent – I saw is on the Frisbeer 2018 Live Stream (0%, 0 Votes)
– Bad – I was at Frisbeer 2018 (0%, 0 Votes)
– Never Hear of It (0%, 0 Votes)
Note: This poll was not directly connected to Frisbeer and merely a quick check for those who opted to answer the poll on FrisbeeGuru.com. However, it is interesting to see that there were zero (0) votes from those who responded to this poll AND who were at Frisbeer who thought the system was “bad.” And a majority of those Frisbeer competitors who took the poll thought it was “good,” (16), with others attending Frisbeer rating the dial system as either “undecided” (1) or “indifferent” (3).
Appendix 2: After Frisbeer feedback – FB posts and emails compilation
Appendix 1: Feedback from Frisbeer players collected by Jakub
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Original message from PK posted to Jammers-on-the-net and Freestyle Frisbee players facebook group on April 9th, 2018:
Hello Jammers!!
Some really exciting judging news is developing as a result of using the new Dial system at Frisbeer….yes exciting judging news ?
The Dial judging system Ryan Young has developed, and that was used at Frisbeer, takes a holistic approach while incorporating real-time judging. The results were seen as valid.
The system helped the event timing to be efficient (not “Frisbee time”). Immediate results (including data) were available for players, as well as the on-site and live-stream audiences. There was little down-time which kept judges, audience and players more engaged. Competitors had a better understanding of when they were going to play, so it was easier to pace yourself before competing. A great by-product of the system was also a significant increase in jam time.
Feedback from participants showed us where there are several issues to address, especially regarding how to ensure that all judges understand the system in the same way. There needs to be more exposure and training of judges who would use the system.
We will use the system at The Jammers and Ryan is ready to get the system to folks who can use computers to practice judging using the system. While not as ergonomic as a dial, you could use your mouse – while watching YouTube videos. This can make for a fun get together for groups all over the world!
It is the intent of the FPA board to take the necessary steps that would move us toward using this Dial system for all major events in 2019. The 2018 FPA Worlds in Trnava will not use the Dial system, but will instead use the FPA system as called for by the current FPA Competition Manual. We are discussing whether to use the dial system at EFO in Berlin before FPAW in Trnava and will solidify those plans after The Jammers tournament at the end of May.
Your input is invited and welcome regarding the Dial system, including ways to get this system into as many hands as possible, and helping people understand how it works.
FPA Board of Directors
The Dial System is a realtime judging system. Each judge has a single dial that turns in both directions. The dial works very similar to a volume knob. A judge’s job is in realtime award a number between 0 and 10 by turning the dial. The judge should be evaluating all aspects of the routine and award a number the represents what they think at that very moment.
Longer break down of how scores are calculated:
The scores are calculated by calculating the area under the curve defined in the graph where time is on the X axis and the judge score is on the Y axis. Think about it like if each judge has a hose and are filling a giant bucket with water. Each judge can control how much water is coming out of their hose. This is what the dial is doing. When the judge sets the number to 10, there is a lot of water coming out of their hose. At the end of the routine they system calculates functionally how much water is in the bucket. The team with the most water wins.
To help further clarify, please have a listen to the podcast Ryan did regarding this system http://www.heinsville.com/episode-55-ryan-young-electronic-judging-system-going-live-frisbeer/
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